Thoughts on Master Seed Generation in HD Wallets

19 replies 94 views
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#1Jun 25, 2021, 10:12 AM
Finished my write-up on master seed generation for HD wallets. Looking for feedback on content and accuracy. 🤠 Planning to refine it more later, but I need a review for now.
4 Reply Quote Share
max2013Newbie
Posts: 99 · Reputation: 24
#2Jun 27, 2021, 09:07 AM
Who’s the target audience for this thing? The Mnemonic-to-Seed Conversion part seems confusing. Might give an impression but not much more. Plus, previous sections feel kinda redundant since BIP39 already covers it.
3 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#3Jun 28, 2021, 04:22 AM
Why not just support for once? It's a tech section. You guys throw around BIPs that are way harder to grasp than what I wrote. No wonder people think you’re clueless.
0 Reply Quote Share
gang2015Member
Posts: 682 · Reputation: 62
#4Jun 30, 2021, 02:55 PM
This looks solid overall. Quick thought: most wallets use either 128 or 256 bits for data. You can actually go with 160, 192, or 224 bits too. But mentioning salting? Nah, not needed. CSPRNG protects against precomputes.
6 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#5Jun 30, 2021, 04:42 PM
Thanks! I know other bit lengths exist, but since they aren't commonly used, I left them out. But is it wrong to mention them? Appreciate the input! 🤠
2 Reply Quote Share
max2013Newbie
Posts: 99 · Reputation: 24
#6Jun 30, 2021, 06:51 PM
Yeah, it is. But some things you can just google. Like finding a good BIP39 explanation.
4 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#7Jul 1, 2021, 06:07 AM
Not cool, dude. Just tell me if the 8-min read is correct. Instead of links and vague ramblings, give me some actual feedback.
4 Reply Quote Share
0xNodeMember
Posts: 671 · Reputation: 80
#8Jul 1, 2021, 11:40 AM
BIPs can be confusing. Infographics summarizing them help a lot. By the way, did you include HMAC-SHA512? It uses the master seed for creating the master private key. Pretty key.
2 Reply Quote Share
0xLynxMember
Posts: 113 · Reputation: 205
#9Jul 1, 2021, 01:44 PM
You gotta define 'entropy.' Different types exist, like physical and Shannon entropy. It'd be better if you clarify which one you mean in your summary.
1 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#10Jul 1, 2021, 05:16 PM
For sure! I'm onto that. You’re right about the HMAC stuff; that's how the master private key is derived. I'm working on getting that in there too.
4 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#11Jul 1, 2021, 11:21 PM
Help me clarify this. Entropy just means randomness, right? A CSPRNG gathers it from different sources. What do you think?
3 Reply Quote Share
0xChadNewbie
Posts: 513 · Reputation: 3
#12Jul 3, 2021, 11:56 PM
Just change the title. It should be more specific, like "BIP39 and Master Seed Generation." Not all wallets follow BIP39. They use pRNG instead in some cases.
4 Reply Quote Share
0xLynxMember
Posts: 113 · Reputation: 205
#13Jul 4, 2021, 02:54 AM
Those definitions just overcomplicate things. Entropy is basically a big random number, typically 128 or 256 bits. It's all about how it's generated.
3 Reply Quote Share
gang2015Member
Posts: 682 · Reputation: 62
#14Jul 4, 2021, 08:26 AM
Also, remember Electrum uses its own standard called the "Electrum Seed Version System."
4 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#15Jul 4, 2021, 02:43 PM
Hm, alright.
2 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#16Jul 4, 2021, 06:42 PM
Fancy words that describe the process. If you're not willing to help, you might as well stay away altogether.
1 Reply Quote Share
max2013Newbie
Posts: 99 · Reputation: 24
#17Jul 4, 2021, 09:21 PM
it would help about as much as trying to make a meaningful summary of bip32 in a single paragraph... https://learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/keys/hd-wallets/ your sections 1 through 3 are detailed. your section 4 is not detailed at all. one of your graphics in the file is wrong (or confusing/misleading?). but since this document is just for your own personal use, i guess it really doesn't matter that much.
3 Reply Quote Share
swifthawkMember
Posts: 13 · Reputation: 40
#18Jul 4, 2021, 11:57 PM
Alright then, maybe point out what's wrong? It's beyond me how someone capable enough to dissect the above document, can be too incompetent to write a simple and useful reply in one go; instead, one has to hold his hand and guide him towards generating a somewhat useful reply. Stay away, petty little trashcan.
2 Reply Quote Share
0xNodeMember
Posts: 671 · Reputation: 80
#19Jul 5, 2021, 12:35 AM
It took me some time to figure out earlier that this covers only entropy generation, but not things inside BIP32 - which use the output of such entropy generation processes. But this is the layer that's directly above BIP32 and you could say it's on the same layer as BIP39 but below the entropy gathering stuff. I will never not like Dilbert.   Also why is he changing color from brown to red?
6 Reply Quote Share
max2013Newbie
Posts: 99 · Reputation: 24
#20Jul 5, 2021, 01:34 AM
keep working hard on that paper and maybe put it on a website oneday once you get it tidied up and spiffy looking.
2 Reply Quote Share

Related topics