Rethinking Drivechains and Past Critiques

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#1Jun 18, 2017, 01:23 PM
For those who don't know, Drivechain is a side-chain project aimed at helping Bitcoin scale and tackle issues altcoins claim to fix. The idea is that we wouldn’t need altcoins anymore, everything would just be a side-chain of Bitcoin. But that’s not the main point here. We’re looking at past criticisms from Bitcoin experts and wondering if they still hold water.
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0xNodeMember
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#2Jun 18, 2017, 03:08 PM
@Wind_FURY, I found where you quoted that from. I checked out the video too, and the speaker pointed out that each side-chain has rewards tied to it that weren’t thought through properly. It seems common for altcoin devs to overlook key parts, which definitely affects the stability of those coins.
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probablynothingFull Member
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#3Jun 18, 2017, 06:03 PM
I don’t think that’s the core issue with Drivechains. They’re soft forked into Bitcoin's consensus. This leads to two major problems: non-upgraded nodes won't fully validate anymore, and full nodes will face increased bandwidth and storage burdens. These downsides could outweigh any potential benefits, especially considering how insecure a Drivechain is, as Paul Sztorc himself admitted.
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#4Jun 18, 2017, 11:26 PM
Totally agree. It’s a waste of resources for side-chain operators, just like with any low-quality coin node. But I’m still learning about Drivechain and I’m going to ask a lot of questions. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Their forked coins probably won't be as secure or valuable as Bitcoin, but maybe they could outshine some worthless forks.
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probablynothingFull Member
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#5Jun 19, 2017, 05:23 AM
Those are two completely different scenarios. Lightning and Liquid don’t impact Bitcoin’s consensus. The security risks like keeping private keys online in LN only affect those users. With Drivechains, everyone is in it, no opt-out option. That’s a huge difference.
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0xNodeMember
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#6Jun 20, 2017, 05:11 AM
Exactly, some folks might hesitate to adopt Drivechains because they can't just walk away if they want to. The idea was to use Drivechains to run altcoins, but with so many already out there, it feels like trying to clean up a big mess. Plus, Bitcoin’s got a solid hashrate now, so it’s not like people can easily manipulate it like back in the day.
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#7Jun 20, 2017, 09:43 AM
What’s wrong with consensus on Drivechains? Segwit was also soft forked into consensus and it worked with full nodes backing it.
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probablynothingFull Member
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#8Jun 20, 2017, 12:52 PM
I see your point, but Segwit didn’t fork a whole different protocol into consensus. There’s no way Core would let that happen due to security issues surrounding Drivechains. Segwit was less contentious, too.
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#9Jun 20, 2017, 03:08 PM
I’m uneasy about miners getting to fork in sidechains. Users would have to blindly trust those miners. Drivechains might skew Bitcoin’s mining incentives and I’d need to see better game theory behind Drivechains to be convinced.
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mr_apeNewbie
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#10Jun 20, 2017, 07:11 PM
I’m still trying to grasp Drivechain fully and why Sztorc believes the trade-offs are worth it. But let’s focus on the fact that full nodes really keep the network secure, not miners.
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probablynothingFull Member
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#11Jun 20, 2017, 10:30 PM
Nah, miners are essential. They make the difficulty go up, ensuring Bitcoin’s security. Nodes enforce the rules and help maintain decentralization. You can’t ignore one aspect.
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0xNodeMember
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#12Jun 20, 2017, 11:42 PM
Bitcoin nodes only SPV validate Drivechains, which is a weak security model. Full nodes might uphold rules, but miners can still steal funds. If 51% attack happens, Bitcoin nodes can only react after the fact.
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0xGweiFull Member
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#13Jun 21, 2017, 04:48 AM
Drivechains basically mean bigger blocks and cheaper fees for users. Wouldn’t that make the base layer more valuable?
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#14Jun 21, 2017, 06:09 AM
Currently, transaction fees are just a small part of miner earnings. Drivechain needs miners to pay for mining drivechain blocks. They’re trying to solve a hypothetical issue with miners tracking future blocks, which feels unrealistic.
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probablynothingFull Member
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#15Jun 21, 2017, 07:19 AM
Drivechain is pretty vague, honestly. Few can really explain how it works. There’s a straightforward method out there for altcoins with a unified PoW and atomic swaps.
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#16Jun 21, 2017, 06:52 PM
On block size and Drivechain, I have no concrete answers yet. Still diving into it by discussing it here.
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basedblockFull Member
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#17Jun 21, 2017, 07:29 PM
What are the goals of forking Drivechains into consensus? Is it to offload transactions, lower fees, or connect altcoins? Thinking about it further, what if in the future, block rewards become tiny and Drivechains become the main revenue source?
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probablynothingFull Member
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#18Jun 22, 2017, 09:19 AM
Drivechain side-chains could serve different purposes: big blocks, privacy, smart contracts, etc. But the Bitcoin blockchain remains the secure base layer. Why would miners sabotage their income?
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basedblockFull Member
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#19Jun 22, 2017, 01:47 PM
That’s a misleading claim. I’m not a fan of two-way pegged solutions like Drivechains or LN, but I don’t think that’s a good criticism. Seems like those arguing against it are just pushing their agendas.
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0xTokenNewbie
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#20Jun 24, 2017, 01:14 AM
Forking a Drivechain into the consensus makes it part of Bitcoin’s core. Altcoins regularly face 51% attacks, and that’s just for double spending. Why trust SPV wallets? Because they rely on miners’ honesty, which is the same issue here.
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